Welcome!

[Kakita Sugita]

I don't see why not? Isn't that what the Unicorn did during their Exodus?

No, Shinjo had some weird right that made the parent into a Samurai. So the children were born of two Samurai. Shinjo can do what she wants after all.

[Bayushi Hoshi]

Thank goodness I chose to stay away from that one this game >_>

Hoshi was going to ask if that Yasuki sold ear buds...

[Yasuki Himiko]

Thank goodness I chose to stay away from that one this game >_>

Hoshi was going to ask if that Yasuki sold ear buds...

About that...

...see, I'm the worst Yasuki ever. I was tempted to take Daikoku's curse this game for the irony.

EDIT: and now I see what you are saying...

...*Facepalm* For what it's worth, I blame Rixy.

[Shiba Naomi]

I don't see why not? Isn't that what the Unicorn did during their Exodus?

No, Shinjo had some weird right that made the parent into a Samurai. So the children were born of two Samurai. Shinjo can do what she wants after all.

Shinjo wasn't with the Unicorn all of the way. After the War with the Rocs in 223, she splits the Ki-Rin into 4 groups to search for a passage home. And it's been stated that the Unicorn added gaijin to their ranks to avoid inbreeding.
Shinjo forbade the Unicorn to marry within their bloodline during their Exodus. As per Secrets of the Unicorn: "This custom insured that the Unicorn would continue to grow, adapt, and learn the ways of foreign cultures by taking wives from the various lands through which they traveled. The Unicorn continue to cling to this tradition since their return."
So, by that logic, and knowing that Shinjo wasn't with the Unicorn the entire way... we can assume that samurai A takes Gaijin B as his wife, has a child and that child is acknowledged as a samurai by daddy. After all, children belong to the father in Rokugan, and saying the child isn't a samurai is to say that the father is not a samurai.

[Kakita Sugita]

Not quite true. Shinjo didn't need to perform the right herself as far as I know, but she did create it.

And bastards don't inherit off their parents. They inherit nothing unless explicitly given. Since it is on a lot of minds right now, a good example is how bastards are treated in A Song of Ice and Fire. Bloodlines matter a lot. Someone with a gaijin parent isn't going to be recognized. Only half of them a part of the Celestial Order? No thanks! Hell, the only recognized bastard Samurai I know of in Rokugan was Kaneka. Being the Emperor's son in a time when they needed an heir kinda forced that.

[Ichiro Yakusoku]

The Way of the Wolf (and other sources on ronin) covers the fact that children of samurai fathers and peasant mothers are, in fact, samurai. They must be able to show proof that their father is who they say he is but if they are capable of doing so, they are considered part of the caste. Considering this and Unicorn traditions involving marriage with the Gaijin its been made pretty clear that a child with a gaijin and samurai parent who can prove his lineage will, in the very least, be considered to have samurai status. CLAN status may be another matter (outside the Unicorn, primarily), but they are most definitely samurai.

[Iuchi Xiao Hua]

The Way of the Wolf (and other sources on ronin) covers the fact that children of samurai fathers and peasant mothers are, in fact, samurai. They must be able to show proof that their father is who they say he is but if they are capable of doing so, they are considered part of the caste. Considering this and Unicorn traditions involving marriage with the Gaijin its been made pretty clear that a child with a gaijin and samurai parent who can prove his lineage will, in the very least, be considered to have samurai status. CLAN status may be another matter (outside the Unicorn, primarily), but they are most definitely samurai.

Xiao Hua is one such Unicorn. ^_^ Father took a gaijin wife, as it is traditional. Wel gaijin and gaijin, from the tribes the Unicorn marry with.

[Shiba Naomi]

Hell, the only recognized bastard Samurai I know of in Rokugan was Kaneka. Being the Emperor's son in a time when they needed an heir kinda forced that.

Kaimetsu-Uo's mother was a heimin, and Osano-Wo recognized him as his son. Just to name one other big-name.

But no, in Rokugan, if a father says "this kid is mine", then it is so, unless someone wants to object to that claim. Be it the mother was eta, heimin or gaijin, that is the way it is.
For a kid that doesn't get such acknowledgement, well, they usually turn into ronin or continue the life of their non-samurai parent.
Kaneka was acknowledged by the Empress as the son of the late Toturi, who never got to do it himself. When the Empress who is also an Oracle says so, it is so. Had nothing to do with needing an heir since Toturi had 3 other kids to take his place. On the contrary, Kaneka's acknowledgement made things more complicated for getting an heir.

[Volsung]

Other way around actually. Kaimetsu-uo was the legitimate son. Kenzan's mother was the heimin. You know, the one he chose to be Champion of the Crab. And there is no mention of people being up in arms over this.

[elonweis]

Except for Kaimetsu-uo and his Matsu mom. Just saying.

[Shiba Naomi]

Other way around actually. Kaimetsu-uo was the legitimate son. Kenzan's mother was the heimin. You know, the one he chose to be Champion of the Crab. And there is no mention of people being up in arms over this.

Yes, you're absolutely right. lol ^^ I get those two mixed up.

And yes, that kid became the Crab Champion *shrug* so it's not something people think "omg heretic" about in the setting. Matsu mom didn't approve, but that was for other reasons.

[Agasha Qian-Fan]

Aren't Matsu always up in arms?

All the time?

About everything?

[Volsung]

Except for Kaimetsu-uo and his Matsu mom. Just saying.

Was about to edit to include them...

But still, their objection was more "WTF? Why didn't you chose me/him?" than "OMG, That's the son of a heimin!"

[Kakita Sugita]

To be utterly technical, the whole winds situation shouldn't have happened at all. Sezaru was the eldest heir. He should have been Emperor. But you know, that whole thing was convoluted.

What I'm hearing from people is, "It doesn't matter. Samurai can have kids with whomever they want to and they're still Samurai." If that's the case, why isn't at least half the population Samurai by now? If the Unicorn always took gaijin wives, they'd be the largest Clan tenfold by now. Not to mention having blood diluted so much that they aren't even Rokugani anymore.

I know Samurai x Samurai bastards are sometimes brought in. It ruins their parents though. Kakita Korihime's bastard daughter was in a fiction recently, with her mother in house arrest for decades and stripped of status.

If a Samurai wants a heimen born bastard brought in, they have to get their Lord's permission. That is what I don't see.

It is antithetical to the Celestial Order. If your lineage doesn't matter, if your class doesn't matter, than what does the Celestial Order actually mean?

[Shiba Naomi]

Aren't Matsu always up in arms?

All the time?

About everything?

It comes with the family-name.

What I'm hearing from people is, "It doesn't matter. Samurai can have kids with whomever they want to and they're still Samurai." If that's the case, why isn't at least half the population Samurai by now? If the Unicorn always took gaijin wives, they'd be the largest Clan tenfold by now. Not to mention having blood diluted so much that they aren't even Rokugani anymore.

I don't know if you have missed what I have written in the last posts about this, but I will repeat it again: A samurai can acknowledge a child of a heimin, eta or gaijin as his child, and thus make the child samurai. What goes from there can be a) the kid gets nothing more than that and congratulations, you're a ronin, or b) adoption into his family/household to be raised as an actual samurai.
Your lord doesn't need to approve of this. Who is he to tell you who your own children are, after all?
Unicorn don't always take gaijin wives, but many do (because their grandfather did, and their great-grandfather, etc), because that's what the Unicorn did when they travelled outside the Empire, as per Shinjo's edict about marrying within the family.

And to be utterly technical in return, Tsudao was the heir, as by that time, Rokugan had eased up on the roles of women and women could inherit and rule as well. She was the oldest legitimate child of Toturi and Empress Kaede.

[Kakita Sugita]

Yes, which is why she was Toturi II, and then she died. So... Needed another one, lol.

[Shiba Naomi]

Yes, which is why she was Toturi II, and then she died. So... Needed another one, lol.

To which Sezaru stepped away from his claims on the throne. ^^ So again, being technical, Naseru was the rightful heir after Tsudao's death.

[Kakita Sugita]

When did he step away? It wasn't during the Four Winds Saga? Was it the story in the aftermath or something? It certainly isn't in the novels.

[Shiba Naomi]

It was in the novel alright, after the Winds returned.

Wind of Truth by Ree Soesbee pg 271
Sezaru stepped forward with a precise bow. "If it makes your decision easier, Mother, I have no desire for the throne. I have my own concerns, and they do not allow time to rule an Empire. I hereby abdicate my claim upon the throne of Rokugan."

[Kakita Sugita]

Oh, at the end... Right. My bad. It doesn't explain why there was a problem up to that point. Why was there a decision to be made more difficult for example? There shouldn't have been anything to decide.